Double standards for a divided world
October 18th, 2006 by Wil Robinson
Justice took a wrong turn this week – actually, more like just ran off the road.
There wasn’t just one, but two events that heralded the decapitation of Lady Justice.
Sitting at a desk behind a sign that proclaimed he was “protecting America,†President Bush obliterated major parts of the U.S. Constitution when he signed the Military Commissions Act. Cheered on by the racist, religiously self-righteous white men who have perpetuated a war on Islam, the world sunk even lower into the hell that is George W. Bush’s America.
Blue Wren provides a vivid and accurate description of what powers this bill provides the U.S. Government:
“This act…gives the president the power to decide that you or I are “enemy combatants†and put us in a dungeon cell for, conceivably, the rest of our lives. It also gives him the power to have us tortured in whatever manner he decides is appropriate. He doesn’t have to have evidence of wrongdoing any stronger than hearsay; he doesn’t need to get a warrant; and he doesn’t even have to tell anyone he did it. He can sentence us to death based on evidence that was obtained by detaining and torturing our families, our friends and our neighbors. He can, if he wishes, just lock the door to our cells and toss the keys to whichever sadist he’s put in charge of our particular place of “detainment,†and never bother his mind about us again.â€
Meanwhile in Houston, a judge ruled that Enron-founder Ken Lay’s conviction be thrown out, due to the fact that Lay died before he could appeal his conviction. In essence, this means that Lay’s $40+ million estate cannot be touched in criminal court – not to mention that legally, Lay is now considered innocent.
Apparently, 10 convictions of fraud and conspiracy exhaustively argued publicly in court by high-priced lawyers just didn’t really count.
The hypocrisy is so ripe it smells like, well, bullshit.
It’s the new America – a “protected†America – under the Republican leadership that claims to be “strong on security†when it comes to wild-eyed Islamic zealots, but that same security doesn’t apply to terrorists that attack your retirement years by defrauding pensions out of billions of dollars.
Even thinking about terrorism is now a capital offense and apparently doesn’t even require one fair trial…but white-collar criminals are innocent until multiple appeals prove otherwise.
Oh, to be a rich white man in America…
Enron Ken Lay Bush torture terrorism war on terror
A bigot according to definition is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own. Please examine your word usage: “cheered on by the racist, religiously self-righteous white men…the world sunk even lower into the hell that is George W. Bush’s America.†Do you see where I am going with this?
The description from Blue Wren is vivid, but is highly inaccurate in the fact that is the President really going to decide you or I are enemy combatants? Will the President really put us in a dungeon cell for the rest of our lives? Will the President have us tortured in whatever manner he decides is appropriate? Every part of that description can simply be answered by the following: No.
The points that were made were not logical in the fact that the President will not really do those things to you or me. You as well as Blue Wren have simply oversimplified the bill. Plain and simple, no other way around it.
As for the Ken Lay piece, you really need to read closely as to what you post. As for Lay’s $40+ million estate, you said it cannot be touched in criminal court, but it can be in other ways. From the article you linked to, here is a portion: “But according to Linda Lay’s attorney, Sam Buffone, Lake’s ruling does not have an impact on any of the many pending civil claims made on the Lay estate related to the collapse of Enron nor on any claims that may be filed in the future.â€
So exactly what were you saying? That’s what I thought, give only the slanted view that makes your argument instead of giving all angles of what you write about.
I enjoyed this post very much -and your last few (which I caught up on this morning.
Diego’s point that the president (any president) wouldn’t consider people like us enemy combatants seems to be, well, not a point at all. First off, he COULD. And some of us (including as I read it, the framers of the Constitution) believe that there are powers that should be limited.
Moreover, just because I probably wouldn’t be declared to be an enemy combatant (which is probably true) I shouldn’t worry about it? When should I worry about other people? Just because it’s not me behind bars, is it entirely inconceivable that other people aren’t being held unjustly? But since it’s not me, I should just let it happen? Surely Diego wouldn’t argue that.
And finally, it’s never worked for me to avoid worrying about possible ethical violations on the grounds that they might not happen. For one thing, they always do happen. We humans seem remarkably inventive in the morally-screwing-up department -and I do include myself in that. It’s a much better strategy, in my experience, to set up a circumstance where being good and doing good are the logical choices. I don’t see any reason to exempt the president-any president- from that kind of scenario.
Now… off to have coffee. Please keep up the good work!
Andrea
You’re an idiot if you think these people are just there because of the hell of it. Padilla had reason to be there, but those kooks think we can be diplomatic to the terrorists. Didn’t you learn from Carter that peace is brought on with strength, which is exactly what he didn’t want to use.
Diego said–
Didn’t you learn from Carter that peace is brought on with strength, which is exactly what he didn’t want to use.
Ahhh, Diego…….. Apparently, you have much to learn, yourself. Lasting peace cannot be gotten with the sword.
First off, for Brother Tim…when has there ever been lasting peace without the results of force having to be used? Do you honestly believe we can have peace with these Islamofascists, I mean really, truly have peace? Remember the convert or die tactic?
You might not support Hillary Clinton and guess what, I know many Democrats and Liberals who do not. Saying that, justifies nothing except that you do not support Hillary Clinton. However, your writings are anti-Republican and pro-Liberal/Democratic views. Do not try and put the slant that you’re neither this nor that, especially when you don’t back the other side up at all.
The chance to appeal the verdict concerning Ken Lay, can you say Court of Appeals? Next, what Ken Lay did (as wrong as it was) does not hold a candle to what terrorists are doing on a continuous basis. How pathetic that anyone would even attempt to draw a correlation between the two. I like that though, no comment for your Liberal rich white guys? I knew that would happen when I wrote, but I know, I know…I have now put you on the spot and you’re going to have to try and defend yourself and talk bad about your Liberal heroes. No worries, you do not have to, I already understand.
I never said that genocide was the American Way that was once again your pathetic attempt to twist and distort words and sentences to draw the conclusion that you want, but what is not really there.
As for Padilla, think about what you wrote… “It hardly matters that he was guilty…†that kind of seems ironic that you want it to matter that Lay was found guilty? How’s it feel to be a huge hypocrite? I mean, it either matters that the defendant is guilty or it doesn’t, stop living a lie and making issues the way that better benefits what you stand for. You do know what you stand for right? Of course though, I could see the answer being no especially since you say on one hand it doesn’t matter someone was guilty and on the other hand it does matter. Are you the kind of person that doesn’t want your Right hand knowing what your left hand is doing?
Imagine that, no discussion about abortions on a Liberal blog. Hmmm, could that be because of easily discrediting an argument you might have? I’m thinking so. American soldiers dying is not right, but American babies dying is just fine…how exactly do you justify the Democratic/Liberal Party?
Hmmm…my blind trust and admiration for one political party makes me a pawn in the game of politics….Wil, I am sitting by waiting to read articles written on this site about how great the GOP is. Until then do not talk to me about Partisan politics. This blog is no more bi-partisan as I am Caucasian.
Lastly, going against your beloved Liberal party, never just two sides to anything? Hmmm…from any Leftist political leader: Stay the course or cut and run….seems to only be two sides to this…where are the other sides????????????????? How come your beloved Liberal Party can only come up with two sides? If you can give a third, a fourth, a fifth side to this, then I bet you can enlighten us all on what John Kerry’s plan was if he was elected in 2004. Do tell, do tell.
Those who support the Military Commissions Act are people who believe the world truly is divided into Good Guys and Bad Guys. People who believe that they who we are enemies with must always remain enemies. People who believe that diplomacy is something you do with countries you are already allies with. People who believe that when someone wrongs you, the only negotiations to be had are how long before you obliterate them. People who believe that we are Us, they are Them, and that is how it’s going to be from now until the end of time.
In short, people who think with blind emotion and don’t learn from history.
Wil,
I need you around more often because you are making me laugh maniacally…thank you!!! I didn’t discuss or criticize anyone else’s blog on yours, I merely made my argument against what he wrote. I believe you either didn’t understand or didn’t read my responses. Readers can see this.
You want to mention talking points, well isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black? Kind of ironic you would use a term coined by a Republican talk show host, you know who!!! Are you a Rush 24/7 subscriber, I am!!!!
I love it, Liberals want everyone to speak, everyone to be heard…until someone disagrees with them…look at my comments that I have left, truly I have not bordered along the lines of hate, unless you consider me asking you questions that you cannot answer…look back, look at all the questions you have failed to answer…I’d want to threaten to stop someone’s comments too, especially if they were making me look like an idiot. An unintelligent idiot. If you ever feel froggie, come over to my site…write what you want…but back it up…don’t hide behind “…but any further comments that border on hate rather than logic will leave me no choice.” What was your mission that I read? [Chuckle] Yeah, you don’t like me around because I do not agree with you 100% of the time. Hope you enjoy being a Liberal Puppet.
My boy had me check this site out…damn Will, you’re getting ripped apart…of course though, to you I’m non-existent…I’m black and I’m a Republican, and I’m proud of it. I urge you to either come to our site and write what you want, or back up the arguments here…from what I see, the no answers you’re giving, aren’t because of Diego’s arguments being non-intelligent but too intelligent…for YOU to answer. Cannot wait to mention this site at conservative-majority.blogspot.com and see what kind of rebuttal you get from our readers.
Just fully checked out this site…you wanna talk about hate? Look at some of your previous posts, there’s where you will find your hate, not in what Diego wrote.
Hmmm…nothing to say to that Wil?
Diego,
As for there not being a president who will throw people in jail for the hell of it, apparently you haven’t been paying attention, with the ‘enemy combatants’ that have been released so far. You say they’re in there for a reason, well, they’re being released for a reason, too. There’s your president who jails people for the hell of it.
Convicted criminals getting off on technicalities usually starts the ‘tough on crime’ crowd into spastic fits. White collar criminals- not so much. Why is that?
Liberals don’t ‘like’ to measure the cost of war or occupation in lives, wasted dollars, or juicy no-bid contracts, which is why we fight so dilligently to stop senseless warmongering. You’d have to condede it was the liberals who opposed the invasion of Iraq, -the cost in lives (American and unAmerican), wasted dollars, and the loss of international respect are inevitable, regrettable observations.
Liberals (at least myself) also support the right of a woman to choose whether they require an abortion or not. If they choose not to receive one, then good for them. Women shouldn’t be burdened with unwanted pregnancies if they themselves don’t want them. The opinions of the religious-minded who seek to legislate their faith notwithstanding.
If peace is brought with strength, what say you that that is exactly what Iran and North Korea are doing. Without nuclear strength (as your claim goes) they can not have peace. Apparently the lessons you think are important are being picked up on. Congratulations!
Clinton ‘not doing anything’ is possiblly the most dubious misdirection out there. What he was doing was mischaracterized as ‘Wagging the dog’. Yeah, that was Osama back there when Republicans indignantly held that the most important business the nation should be engaged in was ‘Monicagate’. That many of the same people are now trying to pass off blame onto him because of the ABC (Anything But Clinton) policy of the Warmonger administration- is flip-flopping. Concern about the threat of terrorism had Bill’s ‘fingerprints’ all over it, something that was the very definition of low priority. After W assumed stewardship of the Oval Office furniture, nothing was done about terrorism prior to 9-11. Nothing can change that.
So killing babies is fine, soldiers dying is not ok…unlike the babies, the soldiers had a choice to go to war, babies aborted are never given that choice or RIGHT (you do like to use that word correct?)…remember, they (Military) enlisted, they were not drafted…that’s what I think is so freaking sad about our society…the fact we have people joining the Military simply to take advantage of the GI Bill and then get so pissed off that ‘ughhh, I have to go to war?’ They and their mommies and daddies get so pissed off, let me give a shout out to the Huston family in Missouri (you bunch of idiots).
Now, when enlisting in the Military they know their major duty is defending this country from domestic and foreign violence. The crap that is going on today is the same crap that went on during the 1960s, how many Jane Fonda bloggers do we have out there? Now, for your abortion numbers Bruce…4.6 million AMERICAN babies to what 2600 AMERICAN soldiers? Ratio time: 4,600,000:2,600…looks a little distorted doesn’t it? Yeah, but kooks try and defend this with, Women’s Rights, Women’s Rights…question: What if the Man who knocked the woman up, actually wanted to be a father, where are his rights????? Answer that please.
Here’s one for you…Bill Clinton will not be remember for WHAT he did, but for WHO he did.
I look forward to your response as I am still waiting on Wil to try and figure out the answers to the questions I posed…
I’m sorry, but the Kool-Aid drinkers above seem to be disregarding the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen who was misidentified as a terror suspect and shipped to Syria for ‘extraordinary rendition’ when he had the misfortune of a layover at Kennedy International Airport on the way back from Tunis to his native Montrtreal.
Mr. Arar arrived at Kennedy on Sept. 26, 2002 and was processed by the INS and sent to Syria to be interrogated and tortured for better than a year simply because he had dark skin, a funny name and a foriegn, albeit Canadian passport. The only reason the INS was able to authorize this action was because Arar was a foreign national.
And this was all before the new Military Commissions Act, not that Jose Padilla benefitted from Habeas Corpus, either. This new Act eradycates even the premise of Habeas Corpus as Padilla was geclared an ‘enemy cobatant’ and denied his rights as a citizen.
Sure, the GOP talking-points are that ‘innocent’ citizens have nothing to fear, but there’s seldom been a benign law that hasn’t been abused for political ends, from poll taxes to the weight of Ken Blackwell’s mail-in absentee ballots.
I’m African-American, a lifelong Liberal and I find none of this amusing.
Diego,
You’ve covered so much ground here I scarcely know where to begin. Well, for now, let’s just keep it simple. I see you have multiple conversations going on at once and many insufficiently answered issues still to address.
On the issue of “terrorist/enemy combatants†like Jose Padilla, I suppose that it wouldn’t do any good to point out that he may have some things to say in his own defense, that as an American citizen he hasn’t been given the opportunity to say. I recommend you check out the latest news of his guilt here. I wonder what you’d confess to if you were tortured.
Well, sense you’ve already judged Jose Padilla based on the creditability of the Bush administration maybe you’d prefer to consider another individual, Maher Arar who’s an admitted victim of the U.S. practice of ’extraordinary rendition’. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Mr. Arar’s story but it’s a familiar one. Mr. Arar was detained, denied access to an attorney, denied a trial, sent to a country were they don’t torture, and tortured. In his case, the U.S. government admits that this was all a big misunderstanding and perpetuated by the Canadian government, and therefore the U.S. should bare no responsibility for the mishap.
Then there’s the case of Yaser Esam Hamdi. I don’t want to ruin the surprise ending for you if you’re going to check out the link, but once again, another terrorist/enemy combatant released.
You seem to have it in for the â€terrorist†which is understandable and morally right, but don’t you think the U.S. should get it right to stay right? And yet, at the same time you seem to vehemently support the fight against terrorism, you seem to have a profound ignorance of the terrorist actions of your own government. If my reading is correct, then this is completely ironic because it is specifically U.S. foreign policy that is often responsible for creating the very thing you seem to fear most. The U.S. has been responsible for acts of terrorism in Palestine, Ghana, Panama, Zaire, Venezuela, and Haiti, just to name a couple of countries quickly, where apparently our â€strategic interest†were threatened.
Frankly, I don’t see how you or any other American (myself included) can complain about terrorist acts against America until we do something to stop our own government’s terrorist actions. The biggest most recent example is right before you in Iraq. The U.S. installed government was made to legalize an otherwise illegal invasion and occupation after the fact. Over 600,000 people have been killed to stop the proliferation of WMD’s, to liberate the Iraqi people, and to spread “freedom and democracyâ€, absolutely none of which is true. Do you really know why we’re there? Are your eyes on the prize? Can you define or guess what U.S. strategic interests really are in the case of Iraq?
I understand you may feel you need Rush to maintain your political focus, but you should really in look other places for information. Drug addicts are not known to be the most rational lot.
Edelmond,
First off, let me give you my up most appreciation for your response, finally someone who can at least answer some of those questions I posed days ago, unfortunately Wil was unable to do so.
I want to jump right in to the Jose Padilla issue. To let you know, I did not judge Padilla based on the creditability of the Bush administration like you wrongfully accused me of doing. Instead, I did a very simple Google search on Padilla and pretty much found out his entire life’s history including all aliases he has went by in the last 20 years. After examining his history you will realize exactly what I put, he was no Boy Scout that the U.S. took off the street but he was a menace to society.
As for the 600,000 people killed in the debacle in Iraq, it is funny how the count went from around 30,000 all the way up to 600,000 +. Think about that, the study is saying that we have ‘knocked’ off like 2% of the entire Iraqi population. Of course though a British-based Iraq body count research group has said before that the figure is more likely to be around 50,000 which is a large difference from the over 600,000 figure we were told in early October.
As for the drug addicts, how do you feel about the Kennedy’s? Remember, when you point a finger at someone else, you have three pointing right back at you.